I thought you might like my thoughts on Raft-WSL

[aleksd2000]

I have tried to leave this feedback in the Microsoft App Store, but it limits you to a very small amount of characters for an in-depth review.

Review of Raft WSL:

Ok, so my initial thoughts:

	Not a bad looking application, it certainly has a lot of options.... AND a lot of distributions - nice!

	I think it might go down a bit better though if you weren't asked to give billing details at the beginning
	but maybe given a popup after about a week to update it? After all isn't that what a free trial is all about?

	Ok, so it comes with two main menu options, Distributions and Snapshots, then at the bottom we have the usual
	Feedback, Rate us and Settings -- Why don't we go have a look in Settings and see what we can break :)

		Oh nice, you can customise the Snapshots folder, AND the main distribution folder as well!! So let's
		do that.

		So now I have everything pointing at my SD Card, because I don't have an awful lot of space on my 
		harddisk, so having the option through Raft to install to that is great!

		Ok, so I changed the Default Distribution directory to point to the SD Card, but it doesn't install
		any distributions in that location, instead their still being installed to the default location ...
		So that clearly doesn't seem to work in my installation ... OK so I have fixed the issue with regards to
		that, apparently you can use Raft to install WSL Distributions to other locations but not native installs
		(by that I mean clicking a distribution in the list and it install to the new location), so to install to
		other locations you first have to install it to the default location (usually the system disk), then create
		a snapshot and then restore the snapshot to the new location.

		Taking that into account it works fine, and to a point really good. But just needs that little bit better 
		documentation in regards to the usage of the location section in the settings. Or even better a way to change
		the default location of where it installs native distributions.

	Now I should point out I have been a heavy WSL user since it first came out, and this sort of interface is 
	aimed at people that don't know the commands, but it's really good.

Features:

	Handy little command view at the bottom, but it doesn't actually tell you what commands it's using ... Maybe
	a little feature upgrade for next time?

[crramirez]

I think it might go down a bit better though if you weren't asked to give billing details at the beginning
but maybe given a popup after about a week to update it? After all isn't that what a free trial is all about?

Excellent that you mentioned it because in the review responses are difficult to explain or to get feedback about.

The way we do it is the standard way to sell subscriptions in Microsoft Store. We define a subscription with a trial period and to activate the trial Microsoft Store gets your payment data. We know that this is an inconvenience and we don't like it, but doing it in another way is very difficult.

Another thing is that we cannot define the subscription as the main payment option but as an addon. So, we must put the application listed as Free+ and then ask for the subscription. This also has an inconvenience that I'll list later.

We have tried the following workarounds to allow the user use the application before entering the payment data.

1. We included a free addon called a trial. The process was simple we ask the user to get the free addon and this activated the trial. It worked somewhat well until we discovered that once the addon expire, instead of asking for the payment data, the application asked again for the free addon. Why? because once an addon is consumed, Microsoft store services don't tell you about and treat everything as if it is the first one. Result people never subscribed.
2. You can activate a free trial in the application. The problem is that due to the application is listed as free+ the trial doesn't have any effect and the application never knows that the trial was activated

We are working in the third option. The idea is to have like coins, and they will allow you to run raft a number of times before asking for the payment data. We are also working to assign the coins automatically at the first run.

[aleksd2000]

Firstly, thank you for taking the time to reply.

Please see my comments below:

I think it might go down a bit better though if you weren't asked to give billing details at the beginning
but maybe given a popup after about a week to update it? After all isn't that what a free trial is all about?

Excellent that you mentioned it because in the review responses are difficult to explain or to get feedback about.

The way we do it is the standard way to sell subscriptions in Microsoft Store. We define a subscription with a trial period and to activate the trial Microsoft Store gets your payment data. We know that this is an inconvenience and we don't like it, but doing it in another way is very difficult.

Another thing is that we cannot define the subscription as the main payment option but as an addon. So, we must put the application listed as Free+ and then ask for the subscription. This also has an inconvenience that I'll list later.

We have tried the following workarounds to allow the user use the application before entering the payment data.

1. We included a free addon called a trial. The process was simple we ask the user to get the free addon and this activated the trial. It worked somewhat well until we discovered that once the addon expire, instead of asking for the payment data, the application asked again for the free addon. Why? because once an addon is consumed, Microsoft store services don't tell you about and treat everything as if it is the first one. Result people never subscribed.

2. You can activate a free trial in the application. The problem is that due to the application is listed as free+ the trial doesn't have any effect and the application never knows that the trial was activated

We are working in the third option. The idea is to have like coins, and they will allow you to run raft a number of times before asking for the payment data. We are also working to assign the coins automatically at the first run.

Ok, so could you not allow people to download the program, but have an inbuilt subscription system within the app itself? So people could go to the store, and perhas buy a subscription package which would unlock it for full use? And when they download it the first time, they would automatically get a trial license which would expire in a week or so.?

Just a suggestion.

[crramirez]

This is a good point. We are in the early stages to implement something similar but for Enterprise customers that don't have Microsoft Store for Business anymore and the environment is more controlled. Implementing an inbuilt subscription system is complex and will take us time. But when we have it ready for companies, it will be easier to adapt it for individual users, now that Microsoft Store allows us to have our own payment system if we want.

[crramirez]

Taking that into account it works fine, and to a point really good. But just needs that little bit better
documentation in regards to the usage of the location section in the settings. Or even better a way to change
the default location of where it installs native distributions.
We have in the roadmap to implement a move and copy distributions to serve this case. Native distributions cannot be installed anywhere else in a clean way.

Also I'll take a note to better specify that this path is for custom distros only

[aleksd2000]

The fact that it doesn't anywhere specifiy that it's just for custom distributions is what made me very confused... Perhaps a way to specify both? A custom distributions location and the native file location?

Aleks.

[crramirez]

Now I should point out I have been a heavy WSL user since it first came out, and this sort of interface is
aimed at people that don't know the commands, but it's really good.

Although Raft may be useful for WSL newbies, the target user of Raft is the one that uses WSL for work on a daily basis. The Raft philosophy is based on WSL as containers opposed to WSL as my main distribution. In this methodology, you have many instances of WSL distributions to perform different tasks or projects.

For example, imagine that you are working on a project with nodejs. You create a distro with everything you need to develop this project. Then you need to work on another project base on python. Instead of installing the python support to the nodejs distro, you create a new one only to install python. You are safe that you won't crowd your other distro with dependences. Also, this keeps your distros small enough for a fast backup and restore.

The container approach is tedious and error-prone if you do it via the command line. But with Raft you have everything organized.

Raft is still at its early stages, our goal is that you won't need to issue another wsl.exe call or manually modify /etc/wsl.conf, .wslconfig, etc.

As a final word Raft easies to you the job to choose the right tool for the right task. If you like Ubuntu on the daily basis but you discover that for example, the ansible support is better in Fedora, you don't have to choose. You can have installed as many distros as you need at the same time and let Raft help you to manage them.

[aleksd2000]

Now I should point out I have been a heavy WSL user since it first came out, and this sort of interface is
aimed at people that don't know the commands, but it's really good.

Although Raft may be useful for WSL newbies, the target user of Raft is the one that uses WSL for work on a daily basis. The Raft philosophy is based on WSL as containers opposed to WSL as my main distribution. In this methodology, you have many instances of WSL distributions to perform different tasks or projects.

For example, imagine that you are working on a project with nodejs. You create a distro with everything you need to develop this project. Then you need to work on another project base on python. Instead of installing the python support to the nodejs distro, you create a new one only to install python. You are safe that you won't crowd your other distro with dependences. Also, this keeps your distros small enough for a fast backup and restore.

Ok so at this point I should point out that is exactly why I use WSL in the first place. I used to use Docker containers, but it just got so fiddly and tempremental, then WSL came along and solved most of the issues I was facing on a daily basis.

I currently have an SD Card, with all available Raft certified distributions installed on, and on my work computer, I also have Raft installed, pointing to the SD Card to load those instances. It works brilliantly. I can work on extensive programming projects, for various distributions without too much hassle.

The container approach is tedious and error-prone if you do it via the command line. But with Raft you have everything organized.

Raft is still at its early stages, our goal is that you won't need to issue another wsl.exe call or manually modify /etc/wsl.conf, .wslconfig, etc.

As a final word Raft easies to you the job to choose the right tool for the right task. If you like Ubuntu on the daily basis but you discover that for example, the ansible support is better in Fedora, you don't have to choose. You can have installed as many distros as you need at the same time and let Raft help you to manage them.

I do allow Raft to manage all of the distributions, and it's very good for that. Am I right in thinking the reason for it not supporting ALL Distributions is because they first have to be available in the Microsoft Store? Anyway round this?

[crramirez]

The distros that are outside Microsoft Store are usually not digitally signed, and also need a workaround to be installed. It is risky for the user if Raft automatically tries to install one of those distros. But if you install them manually Raft can manage them, and in some cases put the right logo in the GUI like Clear Linux.

[aleksd2000]

Which is exactly what I have been doing. It's very good that the system allows people like me to do this. Just takes a few edits in the backup.yml file and once it's restored it's working great!

Thanks again for a cool program.

[crramirez]

Mmm, you are talking about Raft importing tar files and installing them as distros. We are working on that follow this: #23

And you are very welcome

[aleksd2000]

I currently have a generic Debian Distribution which houses the home directories, so nothing specific is ever installed to that distribution, I then mount that from within WSL using the -mount flag, I then share that home directory over ALL of my WSL distributions. It's a little tedious but it works well.

[crramirez]

Handy little command view at the bottom, but it doesn't actually tell you what commands it's using ... Maybe
a little feature upgrade for next time?

You are right. As Raft is a UWP application with desktop extensions the UI and the program that executes the commands are separated by a bridge. So, printing in the UI the commands issued is not an easy task, but we'll work on this.

[aleksd2000]

OK, I just thought it would be interesting for the end user to be able to actually see what commands the program is actually running, that way the end user could also learn from Raft as well as use it as a daily interface system.

But all in all, I have to say I do really like it. The documentation side of it though is pants, and not really very informative. If that's something that you need doing, then message me privatly and we'll talk about it. I have no problem paying the subscription fee, as I believe it's a good program, especially when you consider it's only £10 for a whole year, that's not even £1.00 a month.

Aleks.